Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.note
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and image links are proposed here, while videos are proposed here. If you would like a second opinion on the potential quote/image/video, you can feel free to send it through this thread to gauge people's opinions, but nothing on this thread is binding.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by MacronNotes on Dec 13th 2022 at 3:42:11 PM
And you will shed tears of scarlet.
Okay... looking up a synopsis I see what's going on with Roger: the whole episode is played as going back and forth from present to past in which we learn the years of abuse his wife and children suffered through under him, which is probably why it packs such a punch to someone viewing it when they put him up. In interest of fairness I will say he does attempt to drop both his young children off a bridge to spite his wife for trying to leave him, she just grabs one away from him. Not really taking a stance here, just posting what I found from details on the plot since people wanted things cleared up.
The King of the Penguins
I am still saying Cut to Roger since he doesn't seem much worse than your average domestic abuser in a crime show (the genre is filled with them). More hateable doesn't always mean more heinous.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright looking at the CSI Miami bunch
- Stewart Otis - Serial Rapist and Serial Killer of children
- Danny Maxwell -Sets a club on fire just so he can try be a hero, decent body count.
- Antonio Riaz - Fuck load of crimes and is page image. (attempts to shoot a plane down)
- Robert Starling - Cruel and Unusual Death and tries to gas the CSI lab.
- Wesley Habeck - Hunting the Most Dangerous Game of immigrants with nasty treatment
- Edwin Chambers - Serial Rapist of young girls
I'd say we're good here?
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 12th 2022 at 2:25:55 PM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Cut Roger but keep Colin.
Abstaining on Jimmy but cut Roger (though he could make it as a Hate Sink).
The Moron
I'm fairly confident in saying that the Miami crew and most of the OG's except for Jenny are okay. I can't speak for the rest since I haven't watched those shows, but I know those two fairly well and I think everyone but Jenny's okay to stay.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
The King of the Penguins
Also since Snoke asked me to provide an example from Doctor Who.
- "The Power of Kroll": Thawn is the head of a methane refinery on a satellite to which the native population have already been relocated by human settlers. Thawn's desire to see the operation expand results in him planning genocide against the native Swampies so he can expand onto their settlement. To this end, he pays a gunrunner to supply them with faulty weapons, so they're not actually a threat but he can use the weapons as an excuse to slaughter them and then claim self-defense. When his plans get disrupted by the arrival of swamp monster Kroll, he laughs in delight as Kroll attacks the Swampies village openly hoping it might wipe them out, a moment that leaves his entire crew staring in disgust. He then decides to take advantage of the situation by launching a bombardment against Kroll, while also wiping out the Swampies as "collateral damage". Openly expressing his contempt for them, Thawn regularly talks about the Swampies as though they're mere animals, outright stating that his Swampie servant doesn't count as a person. When one of his crew objects and tries to stop the bombardment, Thawn, without a moment's hesitation, shoots him In the Back. Despite his overall low standing, by being willing to wipe out an entire race out of irrational hatred and the prospect of commercial gain, Thrawn managed to sink to a depth of depravity matched by few.
The writeup of this one is a mess for one focusing on tons of details to inflate his count but are really more just him being a dick rather than anything heinous. All I see from him is a single attempt at wiping out a species when multiple characters just on the page have destroyed/attempted to destroy entire planets.
If he stays this needs a rewrite at least.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 12th 2022 at 6:42:27 AM
Previous Leon
You know what I think I抣l switch to a weak keep to Jimmy given that the serial rapes, human trafficking and butchering one of his victims alive seems unique enough to push.
That said I抦 switching to a cut for Colin as it seems that the other rapist have done worst including the ones with less victims
I抦 still vouching to cut Roger as he just seems to be a Domestic Abuser with no killcount and only one attempted muder
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 12th 2022 at 4:31:50 AM
And you will shed tears of scarlet.
Rewrite; for the head of a methane refinery I'm hard pressed to see him flunking the heinous standard for attempting genocide of a species, even if there are more powerful villains who go further.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Cold Case lot
- Josh Freely - Serial Rapist of children
- Jim Larkin - Abuses his son to bring him victims because he's lazy?
- Roger Mulvaney - Domestic Abuser albeit a nasty one
- John Smith - Starves women to death in a room after breaking their spirit
Josh and John seem clear keepers with one being a nonce and the other having a uniquely depraved niche.
As for Jim... "His assaults梚ncluding one murder梐re brutal". Does he sexually assault his victims? What does he do?
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Shouldn't Colin having more victims be just enough to push him over? I am genuinely baffled that we are considering cutting him.
Edited by MasterN on Dec 12th 2022 at 6:32:56 AM
The King of the Penguins
I was actually about to bring up Jim, what does he do that makes him actually heinous? His writeup is really vague on what he actually does.
Here is his writeup for reference.
- "Lovers' Lane": Jim Larkin is a slovenly glutton. Too lazy to even abduct victims himself, he instead badgers his abused and weak-willed son to do so for him, usually unattractive teenage girls he pretends to befriend. His assaults—including one murder—are brutal, reaching the point at which he murders one of his victims simply for calling him "disgusting".
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 12th 2022 at 6:33:40 AM
The Moron
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
In another series I抎 be happy to keep him, but not when this many villains are coming close to his number and have such horrific crimes on top of the rape
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 12th 2022 at 9:33:21 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Looking at Jim's episode page, we've got this listed:
- Fat Bastard: Jim. Aside from being a sexual predator, it's clear he's an abusive father as well
- Karma Houdini: Jim was a sexual predator for decades, but he was never caught or punished for his crimes until Eve Kendall's case was reopened. However...
If he's a sexual predator over a long period of time I'd say he's good to stay. Writeup definitely needs improving though.
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 12th 2022 at 2:36:12 PM
The King of the Penguins
Okay so at least he is a sexual predator, but something else I am wondering, the writeup never gives any info on what his victim count is, if it's another vague victim count case that is a problem.
At the very least his writeup needs to be fixed.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 12th 2022 at 6:37:01 AM
And you will shed tears of scarlet.
N we are discussing cutting him. The arguments on both sides have been fair, I was surprised to see the level of support he was getting when others on the list replicate his crimes with a litany of flourishes to added nastiness, some even getting pretty close to his number of victims including added torture and murder. This has been a healthy discussion, please don't gawk at the part of the thread against his inclusion because we take a look at things from multiple angles, having a few more rapes isn't necessarily going to make him an indisputable keeper.
The Draftsman of Doom
Furthermore, as stated before, being the guy who made the original EP, I can see both sides.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Ok, sorry if I came across as rude.
And you will shed tears of scarlet.
As for Jim, I found his episode summary... it does seem to be stated he's got other victims but the wiki doesn't make it clear how many more rapes and murders he's done beyond the two attempted onscreen.
The King of the Penguins
I am actually yeah rather concerned about Jim, I mean that is probably fine nomarlly but when we have Josh Freely, who has at least 8 confirmed victims that is a problem.
And you will shed tears of scarlet.
Anyone wanna check the episode to verify how expanded upon his count is? I don't like the idea of guessing he doesn't have enough but it's not really something we can leave up unverified unless we missed a prior discussion where this was smoothed out and just not added into his entry.
The King of the Penguins
I will take a look and see if I can find his old discussion and if there is nothing to work with or I can't find it I will take a look at his episode.
And you will shed tears of scarlet.
Mark me as abstaining on Colin.